The 3 Metaskills: A Technology for Change

What if the real technology for change in team coaching isn’t found in new tools or frameworks—but in the meta skills you bring to the room?

In this episode of Teams Transformed, Georgina and Allard introduce the three core meta skills that underpin powerful, transformational work with teams: presence, use of self, and active experiments.

You’ll discover:

• Why these higher-order skills are the foundation of effective team coaching.
• How to work more impactfully in the moment by drawing on presence and use of self.
• Practical ways to run active experiments that shift unhelpful patterns.
• Why meta skills matter more than techniques when it comes to lasting transformation.

Through real-world stories and practical examples, this conversation highlights how meta skills equip coaches, leaders, and facilitators to help teams learn, adapt, and grow together—no matter what challenges arise.

Remember to follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode!

Brought to you by Team Coaching Studio - The world’s leading academy for team coaching. To find out more about us visit https://teamcoachingstudio.com/

Transcript

Georgina [00:00:01]:
Welcome to Teams Transformed, the podcast for people who want to see real team transformation.

Allard [00:00:07]:
For courageous coaches, curious leaders and anyone passionate about unlocking the true power of teams.

Georgina [00:00:13]:
We your hosts, Georgina and Allard. Here's a journey with you. Through transformational insights on how to coach teams with presence, depth and emergence, let's.

Allard [00:00:23]:
Explore not just the tools, but the art of transforming teams.

Georgina [00:00:31]:
Welcome to episode six. In this episode we're going to be talking about the meta skills as a technology for change. We're also going to be talking about weebling, wobbling and transnormation. If you're interested and you want to find out more, listen on.

Allard [00:00:47]:
Hi everyone. Welcome. Episode six already, time flies. This one's called the three Meta Skills. A Technology for Change. How are you, Georgina?

Georgina [00:01:01]:
I'm great, thank you. And I'm really excited to talk about this. You know, hot off the press of two days team coaching earlier on this week. I'm brimming with ideas and excitement about this episode. How about you?

Allard [00:01:16]:
Yeah, I know, I'm really looking forward to this. And I enjoyed the last episode where we spoke about the cycle of experience and we, we, we, we did a, we, we gave people a rough sketch of what that, you know, what that cycle of experience looks like and how we use it as a, as an, as a semi invisible kind of map that's there but from, from, from sensation to, to awareness, to mobilization, to action, to contact and then to withdrawal. And I think that would be a good place to start from today. Maybe we can build, start to build on that. How do we, how do we navigate that map? What are the skills or in this case the meta skills that we use?

Georgina [00:02:02]:
Yes, let's talk about the meta skills as you say. And we identified three meta skills. Presence, use of self and active experiments which work together really as a technology for change. Why is that? Because you always have them with you. They're there in your pocket all the time available to you to make high impact interventions no matter what is happening.

Allard [00:02:31]:
So, so before we, before we speak about what, what those three are, what, what those three words so to speak mean, why, why do we call them meta skills? Why don't we just call them skills or competencies like, you know, like powerful questions or, or listening or setting the foundation, you know, all those kind of coaching skills. Why, why are these meta skills?

Georgina [00:02:51]:
Great question. I'm glad you asked that. That's taken me back to when we were developing a framework of team coaching competencies because at the time that we got involved in developing competencies, there were no team coaching competency frameworks in the world. And for me, I recognized that the coaching competencies offered by professional bodies were fantastic and they didn't go far enough for team coaches. We need a lot more competencies to be able to work effectively in the room. So we developed a competency framework that we call the Team Coaching Studio Competency Wheel as a guide for coaches. And over time, with infinite rounds of practice, both ourselves as practitioners and observing lots and lots and lots of coaching sessions, we notice these three skills as higher order competencies. These are the competencies that weave magic in the moment for emergent team coaching.

Georgina [00:03:57]:
So, yes, we all need, as you said, active listening. We need to be able to ask incisive questions that change the course of a conversation, but to really invite learning at a collective level, at a team level. These are the competencies we really need to get under our belts and in our bones as coaches.

Allard [00:04:22]:
Yeah, so it's, it sounds like a higher order set of, of three skills. Meta skills.

Georgina [00:04:30]:
Yeah, Elevated. Elevated skills. Yeah, meta skills. Exactly.

Allard [00:04:35]:
And you, you named them is presence, use of self and then active experiments. And that reminds me of the, of the gestalt kind of background where these, where these come from and where they will sound familiar to people who are familiar with gestalt psychology and therapy. Right?

Georgina [00:04:56]:
Yeah, exactly. Our approach at the team coaching studio is really an interplay between gestalt influences and a gestalt lens with classic coaching competencies so that we are very clearly standing for coaching rather than consulting or facilitation or training. It's a, you know, it's about activating the potential in the client, but with a gestalt lens which enables us to work effectively in the here and now.

Allard [00:05:29]:
Yeah.

Georgina [00:05:30]:
So let's explore the competencies starting with presence.

Allard [00:05:34]:
Yes, presence. So it's, it's not just being present too. Right. We've spoken a lot about that. We've spoken about the notion of contact and, and being really in connection with the team and with ourselves. But presence is. It's not easy to define, but present. So it's that and it is our way of being, a very personal way of being, but not just our way of being, our intentional way of being and being aware of our way of being and using that way of being as an intervention.

Allard [00:06:12]:
I always like to think of the fact that, you know, when we're with a team and when we work together, you, you walk into the room and I walk into the room. Your presence has a different impact from my presence. It's not that One is better. But we all bring a very personal kind of, of presence. And then the intentional bit is, what is it that I want to achieve with this client? And then how can I, you know, how much range, how much range can I find in my presence to either evoke something or provoke something, maybe? And yeah, do I stand up? How do I use my body, how do I use my energy to intervene? Presence.

Georgina [00:06:55]:
Beautifully put. And. Well, for many coaches and for many of us, I think it's, it's invisible or we've not really thought about it because we're thinking so much about the tool or the exercise or the piece of theory that we want to share and how we are and the impact we're having is often out of our awareness. And if it's out of our awareness, then it's hard for us to use it intentionally. When I first started out as a team coach, um, I remember that I was trying very hard to show up as a coach, so my energy was kind of contained. Not much self expression. I was relatively poker face because I'm trying to communicate it's not about me, it's about you. And generally my voice is quite gentle, so I had that, that gentle element to it.

Georgina [00:07:56]:
But I was very rarely provocative or challenging.

Allard [00:08:00]:
Yeah.

Georgina [00:08:01]:
And over the years I've developed the capacity to lighten up, to have more fluidity, to be more responsive intentionally to the team that's in the room to show that I'm present to them. I'm energetically available, as we've talked about before, because I realize that my presence has an impact. It's one of the biggest things in terms of creating a container, creating psychological safety. How we encounter and meet each other, how we respond to each other is so significant.

Allard [00:08:40]:
Yeah, yeah, I know. And I like that bit about, you know, you having had to develop your, the provocative side of your presence, so to speak. I think I've been through a very similar kind of journey and, and clearly remember the days where I was told, especially by senior leadership teams, you know, that I lacked gravitas and of course I didn't really know what that meant at the time. But in retrospect, I think it makes a lot of sense. It's a. Yeah. Depending Depending on. On depending on the situation and the team that you're with.

Allard [00:09:16]:
You need to be, you need to flex that presence muscle in one way or another. Right?

Georgina [00:09:22]:
Yes.

Allard [00:09:22]:
Express. Express a different, Express a different facet of you.

Georgina [00:09:27]:
Yeah, exactly. You know, oftentimes we're watching a team coaching simulation or a team coaching practice session happening and the coach will try to intervene and their interventions just not landed. Yeah, it may be because there's too many words or stacked questions. So it might be about the content of what they say, but it's often connected to how they say it.

Allard [00:09:52]:
Yeah.

Georgina [00:09:54]:
Said without conviction. Let's say there's no.

Allard [00:09:58]:
That reminds me of an example you recently shared with me and maybe we can come back to that in just a few minutes because that really resonates and that's why it's a meta skill. Right. Because you can be really good at asking powerful questions, but if those powerful questions are not accompanied by, or are not in sync with the right presence, it, they may not land.

Georgina [00:10:19]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's a waste. A wasted intervention. Well, we've come back to a story. Let's look at the other two meta skills first.

Allard [00:10:27]:
Yeah. So the second one of the list is use of self.

Georgina [00:10:31]:
Yeah. What does that mean?

Allard [00:10:33]:
Yeah, I think we've hinted, maybe added in previous episodes like, you know, where, where we spoke of ourselves as the, as our main, as the main tool or the main instrument and how little else we need.

Georgina [00:10:46]:
Yes.

Allard [00:10:47]:
But to me, use of self is really is using, is using the, is using the whole experience in order to make sense of things. And by the whole experience, I mean what's going on out there? What do I see, what do I hear, what do I perceive, so to speak, but also what's going on in here? What do I, what do I feel? What do I sense? And all that can be used as data in service of raising awareness for, for the team that we're working with. And so I know that we've, we've often spoken about these things in, in a room full of people, you know, the good old live, the live training programs that we, that we ran so many of before COVID And since then, of course, it's been more, it's been more online, but, but I, I, I still believe in, in the way we illustrated this, that there's one way of making use of self, which is almost like a, like that helicopter view that I think we've mentioned. Helicopter view or, and it's very interesting to, to, to exploit that with a group of people by asking one person to go stand on a chair right in the group and then asking how that, what, what you see from, from that slightly, that higher balcony or helicopter kind of position and you see you, you, you get a view for the, for the system that, that you're not getting maybe when you're sitting down at the same Level as everybody else in the circle. And so that's. That. That's. We often call that Mode 2 chair.

Georgina [00:12:25]:
A helicopter or balcony view.

Allard [00:12:27]:
Yes.

Georgina [00:12:28]:
To see the dance.

Allard [00:12:29]:
The dance. Yes.

Georgina [00:12:32]:
Between the dancers. Rather than our attention zooming in on one dancer and one dancer's moves, we get to see the impact that team members are having on each other.

Allard [00:12:43]:
Yeah.

Georgina [00:12:43]:
In terms of how energy is flowing. So. So that's one aspect of use of self. The second one is the opposite of that, almost. We call it the submarine position, or Mode 3. And many coaches find this harder because it often helps to soften the eyes so that our attention isn't so acutely on the team. Definitely not tracking the content of the team. What we're wanting to sense into is, how does it feel being with this team? What's it like in my body being with this team? And maybe I notice that my heart's racing or my stomach's clenched.

Allard [00:13:31]:
Yeah.

Georgina [00:13:32]:
Maybe I notice a feeling of excitement or that I sense this is a bit dull at the moment, what the team's doing. It feels a bit dull, like there's no energy in it. This is all incredibly useful data and it might sound to the listener, I suppose, that presence and use of self are the same thing in some way. Your way of being and then your helicopter and submarine positions or modes. But. But I think they're different. I think presence is a being intervention. I think use of self is an act.

Georgina [00:14:14]:
You know, there needs to be a choice point and then something we're going to intervene on, something we're going to share. So I might share what I observe from that helicopter position. For example, I noticed that out of a team of eight people, the conversation seems to be between three. How is that? Yeah, I might share a question. Team, what are you noticing? If you helicopter up, what are you noticing about yourselves? But how I say that, how that comes across, that's presence.

Allard [00:14:51]:
Mm.

Georgina [00:14:52]:
So presence shapes the content of what I'm saying, how I'm intervening. It could sound like the same words, could sound like an attack, could sound like an invitation. Could sound like a playful humorous inquiry. Could sound like a provocative challenge. Could sound like an invitation into learning.

Allard [00:15:14]:
Yeah.

Georgina [00:15:15]:
All infused by our way of being.

Allard [00:15:18]:
I like that example that you just gave because it also underlines something that we've spoken about in previous episodes, which was the difference between content and process. And the observation that you decided to share in that example is clearly a process observation. It's not about what was being said, what was being talked about, but it was about the fact that it was a dynamic, a process level kind of observation because it was about how, how, how they were going on. How they were going on with their, getting on with their conversation.

Georgina [00:15:48]:
Yeah. How they were interacting, noticing that pattern, that interactional pattern. Yeah, I'm being curious about that.

Allard [00:15:56]:
So, so just to come, come back to, to, to, to this what we call the submarine kind of mode. I like the word mode. And, and I think in our, in our minds that's often referred to as Mode 3. Just as the balcony position was Mode 2 and the submarine position is Mode 3. And if I can take the listener back to the training room in which we're working live and in which one person had just stood on the chair, the submarine position. And I remember this because I remember you make me do this. In 2017, you asked me to go, to lay on. So get, get out of my chair in that circle with other participants and then I would, and you asked me to lay down on the floor with my eyes closed.

Allard [00:16:46]:
Lay on my back with my eyes closed. And so without visual contact I noticed I was still able to, to pick up on, on. Exactly. To still make use of myself in a much more embodied sense and kind of way. And, and yeah, that wasn't easy for me at first for somebody who spends a lot of time in their, in their head. Right. And in, and in and in seeing and listening, but not so much maybe listening to what was going on inside of me. So that's definitely something I've had to learn to get better at over the years.

Georgina [00:17:19]:
Many of us do, I think, because sensing and feelings for some of us are not what's appreciated. As we're growing up, our cognitive thought is what's appreciated and so it disappears into the background and needs some exercising to bring it forward. I was very, very fortunate maybe a decade ago, I can't remember exactly when, but I was running a team coach training program in Brazil and the participants spoke Portuguese, not English and there was a, a simultaneous translator there. It was an amazing experience. But in the team coaching practice sessions, in a simulation with, with people role playing team members, of course it wasn't possible to translate or for me to remember everything that was being said in the interactions over a half hour period. So it's an amazing opportunity for me because really all I had was Mode 3. The other senses were cut off and it was extraordinary to just use that data. What are you sensing here? Yes, so yes, brilliant practice.

Georgina [00:18:32]:
So let's go on to the third meta skill.

Allard [00:18:34]:
Yeah. And, and if, if, if I, you know, and we can do that. And if I'm listening to this episode, I'm thinking, so what's Mode 1 they're talking about? They're talking about Mode 2 and Mode 3. But what's Mode 1?

Georgina [00:18:49]:
True.

Allard [00:18:51]:
And in a way, Mode. Mode 1, we. We're not really talking about much today because we've talked about it without maybe labeling it Mode one in previous episodes. And mode one is, is, is. Is that third mode of making use of self in our mind, which has to do with structuring and facilitating something. So it would be give, you know, giving instructions, asking the team to do something like a facilitator would. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's, it's, it's, it's part.

Allard [00:19:17]:
It. It definitely has a place in team coaching.

Georgina [00:19:20]:
Yes. So you might be saying, let's begin with a check in. What's on top for you as you arrive here? You're in mode one because you're directing both the content of what they're going to be talking about and how and the process. Let's do a round in our check in or let's go into groups of three and talk about. And that's mode one. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that back in.

Allard [00:19:46]:
Super clear.

Georgina [00:19:47]:
Super clear. So, Al, tell me about active experiments. This is the third meta skill.

Allard [00:19:53]:
Yes. And, and if my mind serves me right, I think we've. It's one of those other things that maybe we've hinted at in previous episodes when we, when we, when we spoke. When we spoke about the experimental nature of life and of this work in particular. So it's really, I think, use. I think of use of self as helping the team come to some sort of insight. Right. It's that raising awareness bit.

Allard [00:20:20]:
But then when it goes back to, to, you know, that John Whitmore language of raising awareness and raising ownership or raising personal responsibility, I think that implies that we now do something with it, that we take ownership of it as a team. Right. As a client team. And so active experiments to me are a way of translating that newfound awareness into action.

Georgina [00:20:47]:
And into action in an experimental way. So let's say, for example, we've been observing a team having a conversation about a critical. A critical business matter. And they've been talking about it for, I don't know, half an hour. And I'm feeling tight inside myself. I'm feeling frustration. I'm noticing that some people in the conversation seem to have checked out. There's only a few remaining who are Actively engaged.

Georgina [00:21:27]:
They appear to be struggling to arrive at a decision or a clear view. So I might, I might offer that, I might offer that. As you know, I'm sensing some frustration here and I don't know, it might just be me, but it seems like it's going around in circles. What's happening for you. I might even say it appears that some people may have checked out. How, who's checked out here without judgment, who's checked out, who's still in, you know, so we're generating awareness and the experiment might be for, okay team, for the next five minutes, develop a process between yourselves as to how you're going to conclude this. So instead of concluding it, agree how you're going to go about concluding this conversation. And that's not me teaching them a method.

Georgina [00:22:26]:
Here's a decision making method that I want to share with you, that I want you to practice. It's inviting them to use, to co create within the best of their ability. And when they do that ownership goes through the roof because it's theirs and it's their practice without judgment. The experiment might work, it might not.

Allard [00:22:48]:
Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I love how you offered that experiment up of let's try. You know, why don't you try this? There's something in the language that's very experimental to, that indicates that underlines that, that the experimental nature of this. And then I like what you said about it doesn't, you know, it will either work or it will not work, whatever that means. And, and that does, it doesn't really matter because there's probably learning in it either way. Right. So it deserves, so yeah, the experiment is almost begging for a debrief as well. For some collective meaning making.

Georgina [00:23:24]:
Yeah.

Allard [00:23:24]:
After the fact.

Georgina [00:23:26]:
What do we learn about that process of decision making? What about it worked? What about if we do it again? What about it would you change?

Allard [00:23:34]:
Yeah.

Georgina [00:23:34]:
You might even go into a round two including whatever ideas they have that would make it even better.

Allard [00:23:41]:
Yeah.

Georgina [00:23:42]:
So it's a brilliant here and now tool that requires us to be really present, to notice patterns, to sense, to gather data in that way, to offer back in a way that it can be heard because our presence matches what we're saying. And then invite the team to try something out, try something different. In this way we're breaking norms, we're transforming stuck habits of relating that are interrupting the flow of the team being at their most effective.

Allard [00:24:19]:
Yeah.

Georgina [00:24:20]:
So it's very here and now transformational work.

Allard [00:24:23]:
I like what you said about norms. We're Transforming norms. And the word transforming just came into my mind. Transformational. But yeah. And I think that is, I hope that it's becoming clear that this, you know, why we call this a technology for change, because we, we, we not only believe but, you know, we've, we've seen time and time again that this is how we help a team learn and change and transform itself over time through the intervener's presence, through the intervener's use of self and through the interveners ability to. There's, yeah, there's a notion of thinking on your feet that's related to this. Right.

Allard [00:25:05]:
But to really be in the moment enough to design or co design with the team, it doesn't all, doesn't all have to be on my shoulders. Right. But, but co design in the moment, a, a bit of an experiment to help people. To help people. Trans norm.

Georgina [00:25:25]:
I like the new language.

Allard [00:25:27]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Georgina [00:25:30]:
So I'd love to share a story that might bring this together. I know we've been illustrating it throughout. This was a recent experience with a team I was working with and.

Allard [00:25:43]:
Oh, right. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, I remember you telling me about this. This is good.

Georgina [00:25:47]:
Yeah. Myself and a colleague, another coach, have worked with the team for a little while and as coaches we were what we call off the pitch. And the team are on the pitch. That means we're sitting outside of the circle, they're in the circle doing their own work and what they were talking about really mattered to them. And one team member had volunteered to facilitate the rest of the team. So this wasn't the team leader, this was another team member to facilitate that particular conversation as a learning for the team. So they are on the pitch, as we say, they're in their conversation and about 20 minutes in, something like that, they were doing all right, but they were at some point struggling to really find their way through the conversation to something meaningful. It started out with a lot of energy at the beginning of the conversation, then it leveled out and the energy was dropping and we were, we were tracking this, we were noticing this and then the facilitator, the team member who was facilitating, intervened, offered them a great insight and the team just carried on talking and it had absolutely no impact, which happens quite often.

Georgina [00:27:20]:
It can happen to me, it can happen to you. It was a fascinating thing. At that moment we interrupted and paused and asked what happened and whether they'd noticed the facilitator's intervention. And actually some team members said they had noticed, but they'd just chosen to carry on. So what happened there and what we learned through that inquiry through debriefing with the team was it wasn't what she'd asked them, wasn't the content of what she'd asked, but it was her presence. The way she'd said it, hadn't matched it, hadn't cut through, hadn't said it like she really mean it. Said it with so much hesitation. It was easy to sweep to one side.

Georgina [00:28:05]:
So an experiment came out. Okay, now for the remainder of the practice. Facilitator, dial your presence up, you know, stand up more fully, put your shoulders back, say it like you mean it, even if you come on too strong. Yeah, let's experiment with that until, until we find a level.

Allard [00:28:27]:
Yeah.

Georgina [00:28:27]:
So it's a micro experiment really based on a phenomena that's emerged in the room with the team is not, definitely not something that we could have predicted or bought in an exercise for or given her some facilitation guidelines that would have supported her. It's, it's, it's uniquely around the phenomena that's emerged.

Allard [00:28:52]:
I love it and I love, I love that. I love the experiment. I love the. Say it like you mean it can mix that. That was. Oh yes, we're coming up to the, coming up to the end of this already. It's quite, quite amazing. I just, my, my, my takeaway from this, George, and I've, I've shared this with you before is that I have a deep love affair for this technology, for change, for, for present use of self and active experiments.

Allard [00:29:19]:
Why? Because it's, it's always available to us. You know, I can, I, I can learn all kinds of models and frameworks and again we've talked about some of. Nothing wrong with techniques and things and, and they, and they have their place, they even have their place in the team coaching studio competency wheel. But they are, but they're liable to fail. They're liable to not work all the time. And we know that coaching can be, we've spoken about it, we said not for the faint hearted as Declan woods once reminded us. So it can be a really wobbly business. And, and that, and I've showed you this before but I always have one of these little Weebles on my, on my desk.

Allard [00:29:59]:
Now Weebles for those people that don't know them are these really old fashion for kids with a. They're very, they're very bottom heavy. So you can push them over and they, but they will always bounce back to their original kind of position and so Weebles Wobble, but they don't fall down, was the slogan. Right.

Georgina [00:30:15]:
But you meant to sing it.

Allard [00:30:16]:
Yeah. Well, for another podcast, maybe, but, and, and so, and, and what allows us to. To, you know, to. To. To wobble but not fall down is present use of self and active experience. Because we carry those with us inside. They are with us all the time. So when.

Allard [00:30:38]:
When the things that we used to rely on, when they fail, your presence can't fail, your use of self can't fail, and your active experimentation can't fail. So that's why it's at the heart, at the center of the wheel. And tools, frameworks and techniques are at the periphery of the wheel.

Georgina [00:30:58]:
Yeah, they're enhancements. They create some interest, they create a bit of fun or a diversion. They can bring awareness, but don't rely on the tool to generate the awareness and to create the change. We've got to bring it into the here and now for change to really happen.

Allard [00:31:20]:
I know you had a question on your mind for the audience.

Georgina [00:31:24]:
Yes. Well, thinking about presence, I invite you as you listener to think about what is the presence? What's the impact that your presence has and how do you know? Often we don't know the impact we have and the only way we find out is by asking others and asking how they experience us. It can be really helpful to do that in a range of situations because as we've talked before, context changes how, how we show up, you know, the field that we're in changes our energy, our environment, our engagement, our presence, our way of being. So what's the impact that your presence has? And how about you, Al? Have you got a question?

Allard [00:32:12]:
No, no, that's. Absolutely. I just wanted to say goodbye for now and, and wish everybody happy weebling and happy wobbling and.

Georgina [00:32:23]:
Love it. Let's leave it there. Look forward to the next one.

Allard [00:32:25]:
See you soon. Thanks for joining today's journey of teams transformed.

Georgina [00:32:37]:
If this sparked a new insight or a deeper question, we invite you to sit with it. Not to solve it, but to let it unfold.

Allard [00:32:45]:
For resource courses, community and reflection prompts, visit teamcoachingstudio.com until the next time, stay.

Georgina [00:32:53]:
Present, stay curious and keep leaning into the art of emergence.